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The german "approach" on self defense feels like a joke


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Hello everyone A few days ago some teenagers/young adults broke into a car-workshop with an adjacent private home. The owner, ...


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Old 06-12-2015, 06:35 AM   #1 (permalink)
Max
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Default The german "approach" on self defense feels like a joke

Hello everyone

A few days ago some teenagers/young adults broke into a car-workshop with an adjacent private home.
The owner, a competition-shooter (who later claimed to have seen a gun on the attackers) shot one of the teenagers, who then proceeded to run, and made it to the street corner before he was caught and brought to hospital, where he died.
It was there that the doctors handed a loaded pistol he'd been carrying over to the police.

Now, what do you think should happen to the home-owner?

Right.
He lost his permit to own firearms, and is being charged with manslaughter.
Because, from what the police said, he basically would have had to argue the attackers into leaving.

If you ask me, that doesn't feel quite right.
But, to quote my economics-teacher:
"Law is politics, and politics are NOT ALLOWED to make sense."

What do you think of the way the case was handled?
Self-defense, or did the home-owner use unneeded force/violence?


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Old 06-12-2015, 12:00 PM   #2 (permalink)
 
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Here in the USA (at least in North Carolina, we have the Castle Doctrine. Which means if you feel threatened by someone who is breaking in, you can shoot them. You have no duty to retreat.

Your scenario is a tough one IMO. Yeah, he saw a gun on one of the people breaking into the garage. But according to your story it hadn't been pulled. Should you wait until a weapon is pulled before you shoot? Different scenarios call for different actions. Sometimes people feel you reacted too quickly and other time you may not react quickly enough. If the kid had pulled his gun and shot at the homeowner before he could get a shot off the story could have ended up completely differently. These things can happen in split seconds. Only those involved know what really happened or how they felt. And it's tough to second guess their actions if your not directly involved.

If the kids/young adults were fleeing and he shot him in the back then perhaps it was manslaughter. If they were being confrontational and threatening then maybe it was self defense. I'd like to think I'd have my weapon at the ready but attempt to scare them off but any sudden moves to go for their weapon would be met with lead. I just hope I'm never in such a position.
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Old 06-12-2015, 12:43 PM   #3 (permalink)
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There hasn't been much released to the public yet, all that is known that he saw the gun (drawn or not is unknown), and that, from the look of the crime-scene, he must have shot the guy literally as he climbed in, although (intentionally or unintentional) the shot itself wasn't lethal (this is what saved the guy from being charged with murder).
So yes, it is a tough thing to work out.
Also, going for his gun after the attacker draws his may have been impossible, as he apparently retrieved it from a locked safe (which is how guns have to be stored) when he heard the attackers.

Originally Posted by SilvrSRT10 View Post
I'd like to think I'd have my weapon at the ready but attempt to scare them off.
Some people here in germany actually buy Airsoft-guns for the purpose of scaring attackers, as they don't have any marks on the outside other than a small (4 Milimeters) "F" on the side, distinguishing them from live-fire weapons.
This not only ended in quite some people learning the disadvantage of that tactic (if your attacker has a real gun, you may only get shot because he thinks the airsoft is real), but also to heaps of paperwork having to be done everytime I transport my airsoft ANYWHERE (for example for filming or theater-plays).
I even have to fill out a form if I take it to my own backyard to do some shooting.
All that, instead of putting orange tips on them, like they do in the US.

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Old 06-12-2015, 01:52 PM   #4 (permalink)
 
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I'm absolutely amazed at the political push around the world to protect the rights of a person committing a criminal act. A protection to the point where a victim is stripped of all rights and any action to stop, prevent the criminal act brings instant guilt regardless of the intent of the person initiating the criminal act. The politics of this teaches criminals from an early age that the will be held harmless if the victim reacts and an even greater payday will come there way if hurt in said act. You would almost believe that the parent of these individuals push them to continue acts of violence simply because it's the best lottery in the land. For the criminal there seems to be no downside. For the law abiding citizen...... Not so much
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Old 06-12-2015, 02:50 PM   #5 (permalink)
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The Dead don't lie!!!!!!! Socialist protect their own,the criminals.
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Old 06-12-2015, 06:54 PM   #6 (permalink)
 
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I agree with Jeff..seems like the criminals have more rights then the victim..who is simply trying to protect themselves, family and property against those who choose a path of breaking the law. I was told by my good old dad years ago that if you shoot somebody on your property with good cause..don't let them crawl or stumble off your property..or YOU will charged with a crime. Yes sad as it is but true. Yes every shooting is different and the circumstances can vary but don't be the one charged by the police.
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Old 06-14-2015, 06:22 AM   #7 (permalink)
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On a side note:
The "incident" was at the top of the news for days, but yesterday some royal couple in sweden (I think) married, took the incidents place, and now there's no mention of it anymore.
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Old 06-15-2015, 03:36 AM   #8 (permalink)
 
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Here, he would get a pat on the back. Good shoot.
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Old 06-18-2015, 01:45 PM   #9 (permalink)
 
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I think that the political arena is trying to protect the criminal, just like Viper said, and if you are the law abiding citizen you are the one that should get in trouble for not giving them whatever they were after. Now if that individual was Bloomberg, or Fienstein, or Obama, they would have had the world up in arms and calling for more gun control. I think that as long as guns are out there, there is ALWAYS going to be someone that is against it and if they get a loud enough voice, and/or enough money, they think that they are right and everyone else Is wrong and only they are allowed self defense in the form of bodyguards, or the Secret Service.
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Old 06-18-2015, 01:56 PM   #10 (permalink)
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How we have the shooting in S.C. to talk about. It will create another assault on our guns. All murders are hate crimes I think!!!!!! But when it's white on black it is worse. WHY??? Starting to seem like there is a pattern to this assault on our rights!!!!!!
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