Do you carry with one in the pipe?

SilvrSRT10

Super Moderator
But this does make sense if carrying in a waist band. Certainly wouldn't want to blow your dick off, and if it snags and you're pushing and pulling on it to get it freed from your waist band there is the slight possibility of unintended fire.

If you carry appendix style then it really needs to be in a holster. I know some guys just stick it in under their belt and call it good to go. Not me. I want it retained and protected. Don't want it going anywhere. The gun and holster go inside my waistband and clip to my belt. That way it won't shift and the trigger is protected (it can't get caught on anything). Gives Mr. Johnson some peace of mind.
 

Jo6pak

Full Access Member
I also carry in condition 2. The reason may seem wrong, however, I never seem to be in a position to need to be in condition 1.

At home, my .45 MAG is always in condition 1

I hope you never have to bet your life on that assumption.
 

kwo51

Full Access Member
How many practice drawing and fighting with weak hand. I need a condition 1 /1911 on both sides of my body. One can draw and rack slide all in one motion,it's all in the training.
 

hotrodpc

Super Moderator
How many practice drawing and fighting with weak hand. I need a condition 1 /1911 on both sides of my body. One can draw and rack slide all in one motion,it's all in the training.

I'm ambo, so I don't count. But, you're right. Training and practice is key. As I've told my daughter, cops normally test monthly and if they don't get a 85-90% accuracy, (departments vary), then have to retest and practice etc. So if they're that good, then why do cops only hit their target 20% of the time when they fire a round out in the field??? Because real life situations and adrenalin make a huge difference, so it's more important to practice your tactical manuevers than try to hit the X on a paper target. If you've got a good group and within the size of a basketball then consider it good if you're practicing tactical use. But that's just me.

I normally load 4 rounds in 5 mags. Practice 2 double taps, drop and swap mags, double tap x2, drop and swap mags and so on till all 5 mags are empty. And yes, I do even swap hands back and forth for each mag.

I normally can get all the 1st rounds of the double tap in a group the size of a softball, and the 2nd round is usually 4-5 inches off of that, either higher or lower but above or below the first one. So either I'm not getting the barrel tip back on target quick enough, or I'm overcompensating and coming in to low. It's actually harder than what you think, but I have gotten much better over the years. I used to be about 10-12 inches off with the 2nd round of the double tap.
 

oppo

Full Access Member
How many practice drawing and fighting with weak hand. I need a condition 1 /1911 on both sides of my body. One can draw and rack slide all in one motion,it's all in the training.
I would but thanks to a mistake with a tablesaw, shooting weak handed isn't an option. I do, however, practice drawing and firing from concealment. One way I practice is to stand normally, not in a ready position, and say go at some random time. When they say go, they hit the timer and then again after I put the first shot on target. Most days, the timer shows right about a second.
 

oppo

Full Access Member
I'm ambo, so I don't count. But, you're right. Training and practice is key. As I've told my daughter, cops normally test monthly and if they don't get a 85-90% accuracy, (departments vary), then have to retest and practice etc. So if they're that good, then why do cops only hit their target 20% of the time when they fire a round out in the field??? Because real life situations and adrenalin make a huge difference, so it's more important to practice your tactical manuevers than try to hit the X on a paper target. If you've got a good group and within the size of a basketball then consider it good if you're practicing tactical use. But that's just me.

I normally load 4 rounds in 5 mags. Practice 2 double taps, drop and swap mags, double tap x2, drop and swap mags and so on till all 5 mags are empty. And yes, I do even swap hands back and forth for each mag.

I normally can get all the 1st rounds of the double tap in a group the size of a softball, and the 2nd round is usually 4-5 inches off of that, either higher or lower but above or below the first one. So either I'm not getting the barrel tip back on target quick enough, or I'm overcompensating and coming in to low. It's actually harder than what you think, but I have gotten much better over the years. I used to be about 10-12 inches off with the 2nd round of the double tap.
Absolutely, the first time I tried firing rapidly, the results were less than stellar. I gotten much better and faster with practice. sometimes, I fire double taps. Sometimes, I empty all 15 rounds. Usually, I fire 5 shots at a time. This is a skill that I think everyone should practice because a real threat won't just stand there while you take your time with each shot and it may take quite a few of them.
 

kwo51

Full Access Member
That has been a question for some time.Shoot to kill/ shoot to disable /shoot to stop the assault. Take out a hip with a 45 acp sounds good ,may not stop the fight just the advance. 2 rounds and holster and acesss ,he's still coming . Shoot perp to the ground then render first aid.
 

hotrodpc

Super Moderator
That has been a question for some time.Shoot to kill/ shoot to disable /shoot to stop the assault.

That's a question that has to be asked??? I thought there was only one way. :shrug: I thought you shoot to kill and that does disable the perp and stop the assault, so I'll take, All of the Above as my answer.
 

kwo51

Full Access Member
Only a judge can kill ! In some courts it could be considered premeditation. Shoot to stop the treat. By granting first aid you were trying to keep perp alive and it was their own fault they died.
 

oppo

Full Access Member
The legally correct answer is you shoot to stop however, intentionally shooting to wound can lead to legal problems as it will likely be seen as an indication that "lethal" force wasn't necessary. In other words, you bullets into their chest or in some circumstances head in order to stop them. You then state that you shot until the threat stopped. Of course, if you do an effective job of stopping them quickly, we all know the likely outcome.
 

hotrodpc

Super Moderator
The legally correct answer is you shoot to stop however, intentionally shooting to wound can lead to legal problems as it will likely be seen as an indication that "lethal" force wasn't necessary. In other words, you bullets into their chest or in some circumstances head in order to stop them. You then state that you shot until the threat stopped. Of course, if you do an effective job of stopping them quickly, we all know the likely outcome.

:hmm: I thought avoiding a shot to the head was a courtesy to the family of the perp so he could have an open casket. :shrug:

Yep, I'd agree though. Unless it's a very black and white issue with no gray area, I'd expect even if you shoot to protect yourself, you're going to have some answering to do and the possibility of a legal issue both criminal and civil.

Remember, there have been civil cases where a would be burglar jumps a fence to break into a house, their Rott chews and mauls the guy's leg off and the family got sued for thousands and thousands and lost. Why did the homeowner lose? Because the would be burglar stated, If they would have had a Beware of Dog sign on their gate, I'd have chose another house instead of this one and still have my leg.

Also in civil legal litigation, you can pretty much be sued for being at the wrong place at the wrong time and have to defend yourself. I'd sure like to hope laws have changed but with precedent setting cases to interpret laws, any time you inflict harm on someone you can be held civilly liable. If you find yourself in the middle of an armed robbery at a convenience store, perp turns and points the gun at you, you feel threatened, he turns his attention back to the store clerk and the second you see a chance to take a shot, you shoot and kill the bastard. Criminally, you're off the hook, it's justified. The family sues for $2 million. You didn't try to go hide in the bathroom and lock yourself in, you didn't go lay behind a display out of the line of fire, you decided to shoot back when the opportunity arose. Yes, it's true, the perp was in the wrong and if he didn't have a gun pointed at you, he'd still be here, but you could have gotten out of there without being shot. So it's 90% the perps fault, 10% your fault. 10% of $2 million is $200,000. So now you have to pay up $200,000. Have your wages garnished, liens put on any property you own etc. It's sad, but that's real life trial lawyers for you in uMerca.

There is such an insurance policy one can get. It's an umbrella liability policy. It covers you for no matter what kind of liability you might get yourself into and will also usually cover you an attorney, that will work for you and the insurance company so they don't have to pay out any liability on you. This covers anything you might do. You may be in a bar and knock a guys teeth out, or your dog might bite a kid or you may have slandered someone and being sued and liable for any damage to caused to someone. I hear those are pretty cheap policies and have thought about getting one at times, but hell, I'm so damn broke now, I don't have anything anyone can get. Just about to the point of nothing to lose.
 

Jo6pak

Full Access Member
How many practice drawing and fighting with weak hand. I need a condition 1 /1911 on both sides of my body. One can draw and rack slide all in one motion, it's all in the training.

Unless you don't have the second hand free. Personally, I want my gun ready the moment it comes out of the holster, there will be enough stuff to worry about without adding another action.
I may need my off hand to push away the assailant, or I may already be on the ground. I might need to push a companion out of the way while drawing the firearm. More often than not, the off hand is clearing a jacket or long shirt to ensure a free path for the weapon to be brought into action.
Quite frankly, If there is not one in the chamber, you are carrying an unloaded gun.

As for placement, I am shooting center mass. Which means torso and if I can I am shooting for upper torso. This idea of "shooting to wound" is rubbish. Shoot to kill/shoot to stop is a very fuzzy line.

If my pistol is out of my holster, I am already intent on using whatever means necessary to save my own or someone else's life. I'm not pulling it to warn anyone or to try to scare them off, I'm not doing "warning shots."
The gun is my last resort, to be used only after everything else has been.

I'm not trying to sound a braggart or make myself out to be a bad-ass. Quite the opposite. I hope that I will never need to make any of these decisions.
I'm just trying to convey the seriousness of a situation that requires one to use a gun to defend oneself. I feel that sometimes people treat the subject too lightly.

It comes as close as a civilian can come to being "the nuclear option."
 

kwo51

Full Access Member
Yep real hard to take the bullet back. It is interesting to read reports of people being shot many times and still going. It takes a while for the hydraulics fluid to run out. When I was shot the wound was cauterized and all the bleeding was inside. I did not know how bad it was until Dr told me, did not really hurt either. Shock.
 

Arckadian

New member
How many practice drawing and fighting with weak hand. I need a condition 1 /1911 on both sides of my body. One can draw and rack slide all in one motion,it's all in the training.

I can fire a gun fairly accurately with either hand, but my draw needs some work. I need to practice more that is for sure. But on the whole I can shot with left or right without any real practice. Its probably the only thing I can do with both hands with little problem.
 

Concealed 27

Full Access Member
One thing my military buddies told me and I know it "A bullet has NO CONSCIOUS"
There's no taking it back, that's why a lot of police men and women don't stay on the force long after using deadly force even when they are cleared in the shooting.
Concealed 27
 

kwo51

Full Access Member
It really is to bad that the average leo leaves in 5 years or less after a shooting. An old saying that is not used in law enforcement anymore is some people need to die.
 

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