Terminal Ballistics as Viewed in a Morgue

hotrodpc

Super Moderator
Reagan, for example, survived being shot with a .22 pistol long enough to ban the importation and manufacture of machine guns for civilian ownership.

And with the Brady Bill, a 10 round Mag Cap limit. How any of that made a damn bit of sense I'll never know, when Hinkley only fired 6 rounds. Everyone was lucky that day, he was shooting a .22 and not a .38, .357 or .44 Revolver. Of course, Reagan would have never been hit either if he was using the big calibers being that Reagan was only hit by a small caliber ricochet.
 

Maxx2893

Full Access Member
:thumbsdown:

Fundamental errors are a result of poor fundamentals/poor training.

It's a mental issue, not an equipment issue.

We have an active thread right now ridiculing bob costas for blaming the gun for crime, yet somehow it is appropriate to blame the gun for poor training? I don't think so.

I don't think he's blaming the gun. I think he's just saying that if you don't have adequate training with a larger caliber (ie. flinch, pull, whatever), then it's better to have a gun you can hit with then one you can't.
 

blockdoc

Full Access Member
Exactly.

A better trained shooter is ALWAYS the best option.

But a novice shooter picking up a short barreled Redhawk in .454 Casull is going to lead to fundamental errors. It's not the gun's fault.

I was responding to the statement that there no inherent difference in accuracy between common defense calibers and smaller caliber weapons. I meant that without training and practice, there may indeed be.

And though I am good with my Beretta .40, I am more accurate with my Ruger Mark II. I dare say pretty much every shooter would be also. The Mk II will deliver groups under 1"
 

cce1302

Full Access Member
Exactly.

A better trained shooter is ALWAYS the best option.

But a novice shooter picking up a short barreled Redhawk in .454 Casull is going to lead to fundamental errors. It's not the gun's fault.
no more than with a .22. Bad training is bad training, no matter what caliber
I was responding to the statement that there no inherent difference in accuracy between common defense calibers and smaller caliber weapons. I meant that without training and practice, there may indeed be.
you're not getting it. The accuracy difference has nothing to do with the caliber.
And though I am good with my Beretta .40, I am more accurate with my Ruger Mark II. I dare say pretty much every shooter would be also. The Mk II will deliver groups under 1"


I dare say that any quality handgun of any caliber is capable of scoring a 10x on a b27 silhouette target from 10 yards.
 

Maxx2893

Full Access Member
no more than with a .22. Bad training is bad training, no matter what caliber you're not getting it. The accuracy difference has nothing to do with the caliber.


I dare say that any quality handgun of any caliber is capable of scoring a 10x on a b27 silhouette target from 10 yards.

Not necessarily. I've seen people shoot terribly with a .45 but are great shots with a .22. Bad training does not directly crossover, your taking human error and inconsistency out of it.
 

cce1302

Full Access Member
Not necessarily. I've seen people shoot terribly with a .45 but are great shots with a .22. Bad training does not directly crossover, your taking human error and inconsistency out of it.

Precisely. Good training reduces human error and inconsistency. Bad training reinforces human error and inconsistency.
 

Maxx2893

Full Access Member
Ok so while it isn't the caliber's fault, there is a direct correlation. More people flinch shooting a .45 than a .22
 

hotrodpc

Super Moderator
Hell I flinch when I see obama.

I don't think I'd call it a flinch when I see Obama. It's more like a jerk. Damn near convulse !!! :rofl:


I don't flinch anymore. With practice, you can get over it. Flinch as I know it, is pretty much a mental thing when your anticipating the recoil. Once you get confident with your gun, and can mentally relax with it, you will no longer flinch.
 

otasan

Full Access Member
This guy has a ton of experience at autopsy tables. If he highly recommends .40 and .45 pistols, then this is more than notable. I am going to retire my G17 soon and buy a G22.
 

hotrodpc

Super Moderator
This guy has a ton of experience at autopsy tables. If he highly recommends .40 and .45 pistols, then this is more than notable. I am going to retire my G17 soon and buy a G22.

Not a bad idea. He does also note, to shoot what your good and comfy with, and that's where I also stand when people ask me what they should get as far as caliber.

I explain the mag cap, the cost of the ammo, recoil, what size gun they intended to carry. A buddy of mine just bought a Taurus PT145. I personally think that was a bad move. Even an experienced user is going get deluxe recoil and likely not get an accurate 2nd shot off in rapid fire. Although, with a .45 he probably won't need to. With a 9mm, you'd probably need to.

I like my Glock 23 (Mid Frame .40S&W) Light and easy to conceal with 13 rounds in the mag + 1 chambered as it is when you buy it.

I can also use an XGrip spacer over a Glock22 mag to extend the grip AND increase capacity to 15rds + 1 in the chamber.

I can also then purchase a .357Sig Barrel for about $120, using my same G23 and G22 mags and carry either 13+1 or 15+1 rounds of .357sig in the Same Glock 23.

I can also purchase a 9mm Convesion Barrel for about $120, buy Glock 17 Mag for $25 and use the XGrip adapter to extend the grip for 17+1 rounds of 9mm, or a G19 Magazine and carry 15+1 rounds of 9mm also in the same Glock 23.

So I guess you could say I am a bit prejudice for the Glock 23 or Glock 32 since their mags are backwards compatible. For another $240 in barrels you actually have 3 guns in one, and if considered mag capacity, 6 different configurations all in 1 package. I do lean toward the G23 though sicne .40 ammo is cheaper and much more common. You can always get the barrel and shoot the .357Sig at a later date when funds permit the purchase of the barrel(s):shrug: But of course, that's JMO and suggestion to most.
 

kwo51

Full Access Member
I have a 23 c best of both worlds. Range barrel and CCW barrel. Even carry a g27 with a g23 barrel in it.
 

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